A. Most of the people have been running to the churches. Local government said they would provide temporary shelters, but this hasn't happened. Right now, people are desperate -where to go, what to do – car guards feel vulnerable, especially at night. The Emmanual Cathedral has around 100 refugees, mostly Zimbabweans. With regards to integration, there is nothing promising from the current situation. eThekwini's City Manager, Michael Sutcliffe said that refugees are a small number, just a minority and therefore not a priority, when compared to South Africans needing housing etc. This is irresponsible. We were forced to be on the streets and there aren't any structures to assist us. We cannot be compared to ordinary South Africans; our situation is different.

Q. Having worked with the Refugee council for so many years, have you had to deal with many cases of xenophobia even before the mass violence that erupted last month?

A. Well, it started with the Somalis in the Western Cape, some time ago. But it wasn't called xenophobia; it was called crime. In 2000, there was a case in KZN, but government denied that this case was a xenophobic crime. Basically the denial of foreigners' rights, whether it is denying documentation or services, exacerbates xenophobic sentiment. The South African community is generally good and friendly, but this sort of structural sentiment has corrupted them. And there were signs. Recently there were meetings held to discuss foreigners. I was at such a meeting in the Albert Park area (in Durban CBD), where foreigners were called smelly, dirty, criminals and drug traffickers. It was a meeting to discuss how to deal with these foreigners. Some one at the meeting asked what we should do with them, and another screamed out, "Burn them". So it is not as if these things were not discussed or not planned.

Q. Is it about poor integration?

A. Integration does not necessarily mean that people have to stay forever. It is about allowing people to be free, being mobile and accessing services, including being skilled. Integrating can be simply providing proper documentation. If foreigners are skilled, they have options: to go back or continue living here, (but) to integrate, people need to be provided accommodation. After twenty years of staying in the communities, people were picked out as foreigners, even if they spoke Zulu. eThekwini Municipaility Deputy Mayor Logie Naidoo struggled when he addressed victims at a police station in Durban. He was speaking English, but the crowd screamed back "Speak Zulu". People were confused, "Were we addressing foreigners?" People were integrated, sharing the joys and sorrows in the informal settlements. They speak the language, understand the culture, but by not creating awareness that these people were now South African and by not giving those with South African ID's housing - that which they are entitled to - their integration was somewhat incomplete. They remained the foreigners in the area.

Q. What about the South Africans who were killed in the violence?

A. Some of these brothers, from Malawi and Mozambique, were naturalized South Africans. They were still killed. This talk that South Africans were also killed gives government an excuse to cover up the xenophobic sentiment. The fact is that they were from somewhere else and were killed for that reason. Another example, a few naturalized South Africans were given housing, but the Department of Housing was accused of giving houses to illegal foreigners. In this case, these were two permanent South African residents but the community does not see your documentation. They just see you as Pierre Matate from Congo; nothing else. Many foreigners are not recorded, not identified. There is no census for this, and so there are no details about these guys. Of course this causes more xenophobia.

Q. You speak about skilling foreigners, why should South Africa invest in foreigners, when their own citizens need to be skilled?

A. It is a human right. By not utilizing their existing skills and abilities, it amounts to intellectual genocide. It is not about skilling them fully; it is about refining their skills. You cannot resolve conflict if you do not provide (some sort of) development. Sending peacekeepers but not looking after those seeking protection in your country is talk in the air. The problem is that foreigners are here to survive and are not political. Let us skill them and allow them to think about going home to develop their country.

Q. The same engineers who have run away from Congo, will move to the UK, to build a place that is already built. If refugees are provided documentation, they can move up and down, meaning that could return home to skill and develop.

A. In any case, investment from and to foreigners happens all over the world. Without this no country can develop. Countries need foreign investment, foreign skills. Apart from playing big brother to Africa, South Africa's real role in Africa is mostly in the air. They are the positive image of Africa – but for what reason?

Q. Needless to say that the South African government response to the crisis has been poor…

A. Instead of bringing people who were attacked, together, address them, attempt to heal them -government was so quick to round them up and pack them off in a bus - with no idea what will become of them. How can they repatriate people back to their country without even thinking of the causes? How about the psychological scars? Why not give them reassurance, offer documentation, protection etc? They offer to pack them off or reintegrate – when there is no housing! We no longer expect mass violence. But we are scared that they shall pick us out one by one, as happened last weekend in Pretoria. But where is the intelligence service? Sometimes we feel that government is behind this

Q: What is the way forward?

A. We need a clear policy. No more of these come today with policy and tomorrow you don't use it games.

1) Immigration act needs to be reviewed and enforced. I am not saying that we should stop people from coming in, but let us have some sort of control, meaning organized documentation. There has to be some sort of control.

2) The Refugee Act - though already amended - should be reviewed again. Those who are here for more than five years should be given permanent residence, like the Zanzibaris of Chatsworth, who were naturalized some years ago. The foreigners who were attacked should be identified and naturalized, if they have been here for more than ten years. This is outlined in the Constitution.

3) Labour law also needs review. You cannot continue to slave and manipulate people. Migrants are being utilized as cheap labour, they will never be managers in South Africa. They know it. We know it. They will be diggers, slaves and will remain in poverty. Also, acknowledging foreigners skills and education is crucial, and this includes allowing foreigners access to scholarships at universities. If education is for all, then it should be for all.

4) There must be a clear policy of integration. Government is saying, "go or stay", but where is the plan?

*Azad Essa is a journalist and researcher at IOLS-Research, UKZN.

*Please send comments to [email protected] or comment online at http://www.pambazuka.org/