Egypt: Military crackdown at Cairo protest

TRANSCRIPT

On Sunday 9 October 2011, a mass march and protest took place in Cairo, starting from the working-class Shobra neighborhood and gathering in front of the state television building Maspero in downtown, near Tahrir Square. The demonstration was called to protest the burning of a church in Aswan, in the south of Egypt, and calling for the equal rights of Coptic Christians. The Egyptian military, central security forces and thugs attacked the peaceful protest, leaving at least 26 people dead and over 300 wounded. Yehia el Gammal is an Egyptian activist who is working on a project called the New Republic, creating a consensus vision for the transition from military to civilian rule in Egypt. He was at the protest on Sunday night. Lillian Boctor spoke with him by phone [MP3 - 13.6MB"> from Cairo on early Tuesday morning, after he attended the massive funeral for the victims.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: Yehia, you witnessed some of what happened on Sunday night as protestors in downtown Cairo were attacked. Can you tell us what you saw?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: Ok, I was in downtown, in Cairo, when we saw on Twitter and on TV, that a protest that was basically objecting to the burning of a church in Aswan, in Upper Egypt, a week ago. So the protests included Copts, Egyptian Christians, and activists, both Muslims and Christians as well. They were marching from a neighborhood (Shobra) that includes a lot of Christians, in northern Cairo. They were marching to the state TV and radio building, which is rather close to downtown Cairo, Tahrir, where events started on January 25 and where most protests and demonstration take place in Cairo until now. Then we heard that there were confrontations that happened between the army and protestors. State TV immediately said three army officers got killed and 100 wounded. Of course we discovered today, we found out today, that there were no army officers that got killed and we found out yesterday that 25 protestors had been killed, of which a few that we know by name that are politically active. One is Mina [Daniels">. Mina is a socialist and activist in the Socialist Renewal Research Center in Cairo. So I heard of the confrontations, I went down to try and attain the place where things were happening. It was blocked under the bridge. By this time state TV again, which played quite a disgraceful role in last night’s events, announced to the public audience, which a big part is not quite educated, that the army needed help and support from Egypt’s honorable citizens against aggressions from protestors that had been shooting at the army. Of course, as most videos can show, you can immediately understand that protesters were really unarmed. It was a nonviolent protest. What happened after, is that like around 500 meters away, there were confrontations. We were under the bridge, the 6th October bridge, which is the main bridge connecting Cairo squares to each other, and thugs were attacking, they were throwing rocks at protesters coming from downtown, they were throwing tear gas. So we all gathered in this square trying to retreat to the famous Tahrir Square. And that’s when there was a formation of military police and central security forces surrounding us from one side, and gangs coming over from the direction of the state TV building, from the neighborhoods close by, and they were attacking. So most protesters or revolutionaries that were standing there trying to attain the other part of the protest that was behind, had to run into side streets to downtown. With bands of thugs running after us, chasing us into downtown streets. When I attained downtown, when I attained central downtown, I was trying to get back to a place where I could meet my friends I had left earlier and that’s when military police started shooting and running and trying to encircle the remaining protesters. There was street chasing that took place until 2am, a lot of firing, a lot of rifle shooting, until things totally ended at 2am. So that how it started, the protest reached state TV at 5pm, to my knowledge. By the time I was in a nearby place, it was around 7:30, and things ended at 2am in downtown Cairo.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: And were these thugs and the military specifically trying to target the Coptic Christians that were protesting?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: I wouldn’t say they are trying to target Coptic Christians that are protesting. Because I consider what happened yesterday as a continuation of revolution protests, what we’ve been having since January 25. These kinds of incidents or confrontations happen in different levels once every month or every two months. They were rather targeting protesters, revolutionaries, making a point that they would not be accepting further escalation of non-violent protest.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: Why do you think that they chose this specific protest to wield their power and show that they would not accept anymore of the public outcry?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: Just about the timing. And there are many reasons. The parliamentary laws just got modified because of pressure that has been made in the past couple of weeks. It’s related to political parties getting nominated and so on. So the military maybe are convinced that they’ve been quite lenient and they’ve been quite conforming to public pressure and they are not willing to give in anymore. So it’s not about this protest specifically, it’s just about the timing. It would be probably be a good reason to delay parliamentary elections that are supposed to be taking place next month.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: In international media, on state television, this is being portrayed as a specific attack on Coptic Christians. How does this affect the Revolution and the work that you have all done so far to this point?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: I noticed that, and I tried yesterday on Twitter to make it very precise that it is not sectarian. It seems like international media is more inclined towards depicting it like a sectarian thing, which we totally disagree with. You know when I was at the Cathedral a few hours ago, we were praying. We were praying and mourning. There were 22 coffins of those who were killed yesterday. And inside the Cathedral, both Christians and Muslims were making assumptions, almost confirming that there were Muslims that got killed as well, that we don’t know of, specifically to make this look like a sectarian thing that happened. I think there were Muslims that got killed that didn’t get accounted for. It’s not a sectarian thing, its just another episode of violence that has been inflicted by the executive anti- Egyptian revolutionaries just to end any progress towards the transition to democracy that we are seeking. At one point, there was a bearded man, religious Muslim man, chanting, next to young Christians that were holding crosses, “Muslims and Christians One Hand,” which really enhances our belief and our conviction, that the same sense of national unity that existed from the very beginning is still present, despite what state media, and the current government, and the executive authority in place now is trying to make people believe. State media, they used TV, the Egyptian state TV, last night was repeating the exact same lies that they were making the first 18 days of the revolution, just making sure to tell people that these were Copts that were armed, that were attacking army officers that had protected the revolution since day one. So they have been making everything they could do, every possible trick they could do to paint it as sectarian. Whether its going to work or not, it all depends on how people, I mean average citizens, perceive and listen and believe what state media has to say to them.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: How is the average citizen perceiving what happened yesterday?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: People are really depressed. People are really feeling down on all levels. You walk in the street, you talk to people, everyone is really feeling bad today. As I put in my blog, Egypt woke up today in tears. Everyone is really sad for what happened. Everyone, I mean regardless of who they are, is really sad. We feel like we are being led somewhere that is not the right place. But we know, and we are hopeful, that this is not going to happen.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: You attended the funeral for the people killed Sunday night and Monday morning. Can you describe what it was like there?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: There were people from different places in Egypt. They were all mourning the deaths. Of course the families were there. Mothers were crying, wives as well. There was the second priest in the church that was giving a speech, a very emotional speech. People were all chanting from the church, Copts from the church, but all Egyptians were chanting for national unity and against the Supreme Council, the SCAF.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: What are people that are working on the revolution planning to do now?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: Unite. Uniting. Getting clear vision. Clear stepping stones, clear guidelines to where we are heading. Having one demand. Making either presidential elections or a transitional presidential council available immediately, as soon as possible. We need a civil state. We need a civil authority to replace the interim Supreme Council of the Armed Forces that is in power now. We need the prime minister, we need the current government to get reshuffled. We need the cabinet to get reshuffled. We need to start afresh, we need to start as we should have done eight months ago.

LILIAN BOCTOR: You have faith that Egypt can overcome this, that it is stronger than the government and the military and the media trying to create divisions on sectarian and religious basis?

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: I believe that we are going through a very bumpy phase, but I am also confident that Egypt is much stronger than any forces that are consciously or unconsciously trying to hinder our effort to progress and reach a democratic and a civil state. Egypt is much bigger. And If Egypt makes it, and it will make it, then the whole Middle East will be different ten years from now. Egypt always leads the region. And of course there are many forces now that don’t want to see this model work the way that it is supposed to be. But its been proven over the last year that there is a huge potential, and that things will happen in a different way than what they wish for.

LILLIAN BOCTOR: Thank you so much.

YEHIA EL GAMMAL: Thank you, I appreciate it as well.

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* Lillian Boctor is a freelance journalist based in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. She is a reporter for Free Speech Radio News and has worked as a journalist, associate producer and researcher at the Canadian Broadcast Corporation (CBC) and Radio Canada International (RCI).
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